Curse

Loviatar · May 27, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orderless

We are talking about some kid that just offered you something worth nothing and you AGREEING to pay for it. Its not like he hacked you and took you damn money.

That is my final thought on this topic and I have nothing left to say.

they agreed to pay for what was stated as an item of value

you act as though they knew it was worthless and still agreed to it

considering time is money in real life yes they are thieves

Hans Manitou · May 27, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Loviatar,

I was thinking the same thing...
How can people justify the fact that it's ok to LIE to people to get what they want?
Who knows what drives someone to act in this manner.
Maybe AN needs to create a server for people that want everything immediatley...
Best Armor? No Problemo...
Best Weapon? Give it to them...
Black Dye? Have all the dyes in the game free of charge...

But only let those characters reside on the "scammer" server....

Leave the people who want to play the game scam free play in a scam free environment.

Will this ever happen? probably not.
I will have to put up with it because we are all human... Every one of us with a different personality that drives us to do the things we do. That is why in the real world we have law enforcement.

Dang, I play this game to get away from the "real world"....

Just my $0.02

Orderless · May 27, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

ok and you suggest what? You keep on keepin on this track that something should be done? What is it you suggest? hmmm? mb we draw and quarter them? Or better yet give them a public beating? Or hey mb just perma ban them from the gw servers?

Let me give you some insight to the FREE world concept of buyer beware and mb just mb it might shed some light on this subject for you.......as features you would so quickly eliminate might come back with someone wanting to do the same to you.

The phrase or saying ‘Buyer beware’ has some legal background, but is more often linked to everyday life when trying to warn people against the perils of purchasing - that’s purchasing, often without good deliberation, consideration of facts - or sometimes just good old ‘commonsense’ (me included!)

Today’s fast pace World is all about ‘here and now ‘ getting things done today - action, not delays.

We are all part of it. We all want things immediately, we hate waiting, postponing, complications…..

Without this hyper-energetic lifestyle, there would be no need for fast-food, microwave ovens, email, cell phones, instant coffee, 500 TV / Cable channels, express elevators…….

But … that’s the World we live in, and the life we lead.

Who, more than anyone, has grasped this concept of high-energy, turbo-boosted lifestyles than…. the sales, business and marketing industry?

They are dominating virtually every aspect of our lives, often subliminal, subconsciously - but always effectively.

This drives the passion inside us, acting as the catalyst which results in our eagerness, need, often GREED - to make impulse decisions, instantaneous purchases…. many of which are regrettable.

Hands up those of us who have never bought something on the spur of the moment, then later wished they hadn’t??

It’s not all our fault.

Whilst we must hold ourselves partly accountable, society too, but we mustn't forget the experts all around us who are preying on our weaknesses - to make ‘that’ sale.

It’s all about…..

‘BUY NOW - Limited Stocks’.
‘ Sale Ends SOON’.
‘ Offer Won’t Last Long’.
‘ This Deal Closes Tomorrow’.
‘Price Goes Up At Midnight’.
‘Get It While You Still Can’.
‘One Day Sale’.

It’s all very clever marketing and sales techniques - nothing illegal (not usually), some might say NOT even immoral.

Here’s a little ‘hint’ about the morality of ‘sales’……….

Where I live, I am constantly bombarded with Sales and Special Offers, just like many other countries.

I will see an advertisement offering me a 75% discount off the normal price of a set of dining room furniture.

Sounds good so far - that’s one hell of a saving - 75% off. This means I pay only one quarter the normal price.

However, and here’s the catch…….. the retailer, part of a large chain, has at some time in the past few months, at one of their outlets / stores (usually one of their smallest, and least popular) - placed a ‘higher than normal’ price on the items for a short period.

So - usual price in usual stores would be $2,000

But they applied a ‘special’ price at a small, unpopular store of $3,500 - for the same items.

Advertise 75% OFF (but hidden in the small print they refer to the price at this ‘one’ store, where the item was on sale there for a few days.

SO - here’s the bottom line.

If it REALLY was 75% off - the ‘usual’ price of $2,000 - you would pay just $500

However, as they are using this special price from just one of their outlets, you pay 75% off this ‘adjusted’ price of $3,500 - which is $875…. So you are in fact, paying much more than what the real discount should be.

This is not illegal. This is exploitation of a loophole. And people just like you and me fall for this every day.

Many of us will buy because of the discount, the special offer, the sale price - and have less regard for the product itself.

NOTE - businesses very, VERY rarely sell items for LESS than they cost. So Sale Prices still mean they make a profit - albeit a reduced profit.

Often our impulse purchases of special offers and discounts, are made without a second thought regarding the terms, conditions, exemptions, exclusions, and guarantees (if any) that apply.

Here is another, very quick example, of how we can be exploited. Mail Order companies, just like any other business have sales and special offers.

But not all of them allow free returns of goods if you change your mind.

This means that if you have decided not to keep the product, then YOU have to pay from your pocket, the cost of returning the item.

This itself is a factor which is off-putting to many, and deters people from returning goods. This results in lower returns, lower refunds for some Mail Order companies (and more profit).

The internet for example, is jam-packed with special offers, limited time sales etc. It’s is one of the most popular forms of internet marketing strategies which ‘force’ (persuasive encouragement) people BUY NOW.

And it works!

You simply don’t want to be left out……. To be the one who missed an opportunity…… so out comes that credit card and BANG! You’ve done it!

Often, following this very short period of adrenalin-driven hyperactivity, follows a prolonged period of remorse and regret.

“Why the hell did I buy that?”

Sometimes we quickly try to claim a refund - but often we don’t. We may have some small nagging doubts inside, but we put them to one side and cross our fingers.

It’s only later, when we realise that the sale was ‘hyper-hyped’ - and the product may have been over-sold and in the cold light of day, under-delivered - we really start to have our misgivings.

Often, it’s too late by this stage. The offer has closed, the refund period *(if any) has expired. The product didn't live up to our expectations, the car doesn’t have an engine, the video we bought was Betamax, the software was too hard to use, the book was written in a reading style for those studying Quantum Mechanics, there is no support, I didn’t read the small print……..

The last part is vital.

If you really MUST have it - then check, read, understand and know the terms. Don’t spend $200 on software only to find it doesn’t come with installation instructions, a manual or support.

Check it out FIRST.

If you are SO pushed for time, that the special offer / sale ends in two minutes - and you haven’t got the time to read the terms,…… do you really need it THAT MUCH?

If you have doubts - or questions, then ASK FIRST! If the seller wants to make the sale, they will be happy to help you. If they’re obstructive - walk away.

Is ANY purchase really THAT important that you MUST buy it NOW?

Unless you are buying food for your family…. I doubt it.

Can you afford to burn money? Or do you just buy things for the hell of it?

Make sure you KNOW what you are getting, what the limitations are, and if you get any support.

So….I have now made my point Buyer Beware !!

And no I dont support scamming I do however support that if some guy does sell you something worth nothing he has the freedom to do so. Just as I have the right to give my teammates any items I dont need.

Awol Duteq · May 27, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

FYI he's not selling nothing as nothing at a high price, he's selling something worthless claiming it's a completly different item that holds value. You're argurments aren't even remotely the same thing. It's selling a cubic zirconia claiming it's diamonds. AKA..Fraud, illegal. Which by the way, he does not have the freedom to do.

(and just a note, I didn't get scammed, I just caught him tangled in his own lies to protect someone else that was about to lay the money down)

Dirkiess · May 27, 2005, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbaldork06

I think its great that ur watching out for hackers. I got hacked a few days ago and some dude was usin my acc. Luckily i culd retrieve my password. I lost all my gold and stuff though =( If this has happened to you please tell me, my sn is Crazyass Mofo. Thanks again.

Wasn't he saying that someone hacked his account here and it wasn't him selling the Sigil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbaldork06

LOL Orderless is right. It doesnt take a genius to avoid "scams". This Aqol Duteq guy must have no life at all trying to follow me around. Scamming isnt really a bad thing, all it is is good business. That is how people are successful in life. They sell stuff for more than its worth.

OOppsss. Sounds like he is now saying it was him who was selling the Sigil.

And Orderless, I agree with you that there are Sales techniques out there to get people to buy on the spur of the moment, things, items, you name it they want it.

The fact of the point is, you seem to have forgotten one little detail as I really couldn't be bothered to read your whole post above.

All those items in the shops, that can be bought are what you see, is what you pay for, is what you take home, no matter what the price, that is what you are getting.

This guy selling the invisible Sigil, was actually, selling nothing for a lot of money and as such you would have got nothing, no matter what the sales pitch, Nothing, Nadda, Zip.

As for people chasing down scammers. So be it. It's good for the game, it's good for new players who want to enjoy the game and not think after one week, i don't want to play this anymore, it's no fun. And not least of which, it's good for AN for funding further development by getting rid of scammers and cheats and hackers who spoil the fun for all those who want to play properly, meaning more people buy the game.
As for all those who say Samming is good. What planet are you really on. Personally, i think those sorts of comments come from people who in some way do something wrong in some way to other players and this is one way they vent there frustration out on others, but arguing this fact.

My 100k of gold's worth.

Shagsbeard · May 28, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

So this is by way of a friendly warning. Or a not-so-friendly warning, as the case may be.

It's important to know that the reports that we receive will be investigated and those found to be breaking the Rules of Conduct or the Terms of Service will be banned.

We're confident that the vast majority of Guild Wars players will support our efforts to keep the game world pleasant for all.

Here's one that does. The really really neat thing about the business model of GW is that you guys actually have a financial reason for banning someone. Pay to play games hem and hah over the issue, allowing people to destroy their game (read DAoC+Bots) and end up with what... <40% of their peak playerbase after 3 years? You ban a jerk and you still have his money. Great plan. Glad to see that there is a company without a conflict of interest when it comes to deciding issues related to antisocial behavor.

tomcat · May 28, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awol Duteq

If I leave my front door unlocked to run to the store, and my house gets robbed in those 10 minutes, the police should arrest me??!!

You wouldn't get arrested, but you better not admit to ANYONE that you left the door unlocked. Of course, the police will figure it out pretty darn quickly.

If you leave your front door unlocked, and your posessions are stolen, don't expect that you will get any money from the insurance company. It's the same as leaving the door of your car unlocked, with the keys in it. You are not going to get the insurance company to pay.

Here in Denver, if you leave the car running unattended, you will get a ticket. In my community, if you leave the garage door open, you will get a ticket from the police, not complaints from the community nazis.

My point is that you have to take reasonable steps to avoid being hurt. This means that you should be careful when dealing with anyone that is offering something that may be too good to be true. It's not completely your fault. Most of it lays with the person doing the scamming, but it takes two to complete the transaction. Buyer beware, certainly.

But, I am cynical, so if someone offers me something, I assume it is not worth the price they are offering to begin with. We'll negotiate down from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

considering time is money in real life yes they are thieves

Yes, you are right. They are thieves. VIRTUAL thieves, stealing VIRTUAL money from a VIRTUAL person in a VIRTUAL town located in a VIRTUAL world. The fact that it may have taken REAL time to come by this VIRTUAL money is meaningless. They didn't steal REAL money. They didn't steal your account. They stole nothing of real legal value.

The arguement that "time is money" is fine, except that it is completely flawed. Your time may be worth something to you. It is worth absolutely nothing to more than 99.999% of the rest of the people on earth. Say you value your time at $100 an hour, and you have to wait an hour in the doctor's office for a $60 checkup. Are you going to hand the doctor a bill for $100? You may try, I'd love to do it myself, but the the reality is that the doctor would probably laugh you right out of the office.

Again, these are virtual scammers, or virtual thieves, if you want. They are in a game, doing it for fun. It's not illegal, however it may be a violation of the EULA that they had to acknoledge when they signed up for service. That being the case, ANet can do whatever they like, including not offering service to the people. But, they can not offer service to anyone for any reason, valid or not. That's in the EULA as well.

And before someone decides to flame me for this post, I am NOT supporting spammers, scammers, hackers, crackers, or any other @$$holes.

-Tomcat

Forgive the edit, I thought of more to add.

Cymbaldork06 · May 28, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkiess

Wasn't he saying that someone hacked his account here and it wasn't him selling the Sigil.

OOppsss. Sounds like he is now saying it was him who was selling the Sigil.

I did get hacked. I lost 70k gold. Get a life people. Its not the end of the world whe you get scammed. Its just a ****en game. Stop being babies.

Awol Duteq · May 28, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

And I'm sure when Anet checks logs on you, you will have a 50 dollar frisbee.

tomcat · May 28, 2005, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbaldork06

Im famous bitch!

Yeah, well, at least in your own mind.

Honestly, it just doesn't matter. You tried to scam someone, someone didn't like it, the EULA says that they can make whatever rules they want, and you are at the short end of the rules stick. Just give up, and try to enjoy the game like the rest of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfgar Runeblade

ROFL this is the guy who calls the general population idiots in every other post

Well, it's what 10 year olds do... Honestly, is there anyone over the age of 12 in these forums? At least are there very many of us?

-Tomcat

ManadartheHealer · May 28, 2005, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat

Well, it's what 10 year olds do... Honestly, is there anyone over the age of 12 in these forums? At least are there very many of us?

-Tomcat

Maturity is such a foreign idea to some. Makes the stomach churn...

Wulfgar Runeblade · May 28, 2005, 06:42 AM // 06:42

well i guess im in the minority then, i'm 30 years old and been a video game junky since pong lol

-(Hyper)- · May 29, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Thanks, and keep up the great work!

Aria · May 30, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

This thread has disintegrated into nothing but flames. Keep flames off these forums. If you see an objectionable post, please report it. As such, a few of you will be given warnings.

Closed.